SPEAKER_00 0:00

If you fold the next one, then we'll find a call to the only thing we're in fire to call it. You're in the right place. Welcome to the big steaks channel with failing here to get a followers. Do people who still think which are the type of streets?

SPEAKER_05 0:32

Well, welcome to the Big 6.0. I'm Guy Rollinson. And if you're currently living in that delicate phase where your adult kids are still technically taking up space, but you're thinking about changing the Wi-Fi password to get a job, well, you're in the right place. And I'm joined, of course, by my partner in crime. And a woman who's still waging that psychological war to convince her kids that Wi-Fi only works in the driveway, the wonderful Kaylee Harris.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

I look forward to your intros every time. They're all you always got something there.

SPEAKER_05 1:05

Lacks of fortune, isn't it? Like, you know, sometimes I don't know what I'm going to come up with, but that's a bit like night life, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Well, that's like, yeah, well, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:11

That's like empty nesters. That's something that we're probably all going through or being through or still trying to get our heads around, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Oh, isn't it a isn't it a challenge? I'm finding it a bit, yeah, a bit challenging. And uh yeah, I'm going through that stage and it's it's uh it's interesting, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 1:29

Yeah, because how old were you when you moved out of home?

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Oh 35, no, um 24.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

24, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:39

And I don't mean your current home and the kids have taken over, so you're having to find your own place again.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Yeah, well that too. Yeah, well, yeah. What about you? When did you move out?

SPEAKER_05 1:47

Oh, I think I was twenty four. I think I was twenty four as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Yeah, wow, okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:53

Yeah, um, and of course it was always a case that mum, you know, would was always doing the washing, so it was always a pretty handy place to be. Yeah but I think I think I was encouraged because the rent, the the rent, even though it wasn't a whole lot, kept going up like every couple of months. So I think they were trying to gently, gently say, look, maybe it's time you gosh.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Were you paying rent?

SPEAKER_05 2:15

You weren't?

SPEAKER_02 2:16

No, never.

SPEAKER_05 2:17

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

I never paid rent. It's funny because I don't charge my kids rent now. When they stay at their dad's, they've have to pay rent, but when they stay with me, they don't. So consequently, I'm having trouble getting rid of them. But uh, one of them anyway.

SPEAKER_05 2:31

Well, see, that's a big thing. I had the conversation years ago with friends and saying, Oh, what are you charging your kids in terms of rent? And a couple of said, Oh no, we just like them being around the house. And some had some extraordinary sort of figure. Um, we charged a really nominal amount for our three. Um, and then one of them had this brilliant idea that, well, hang on, um, I think you should, you know, charging a percentage rate because I'm only 18 and I haven't been earning this money. And compared to my sister who's 22, and it was quite convoluted. And I thought maybe we just skip it all and you can go and find your own place. How about that?

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Yeah, there you go. Yeah, it's well, it's funny. I just didn't I because I wasn't charged rent, I just don't charge my kids rent. But I've got um, so I've got one still at home, the youngest one. And uh, so I you're I know all your kids are out, so you're the full empty nester. I've still got a little one home.

SPEAKER_05 3:29

Yeah, and it's it's something too that it it comes as a bit of a culture shock too, to you. Um, I mean, I know you've still sort of got one at home, but that first night feeling, I remember that very first night feeling. All of a sudden, there's just one of you or two of you, and and we had the four-legged excavator called Daisy, the Labrador with the eating disorder, um, meaning it'll eat anything. I love Daisy, she's gorgeous. That first night feeling when you when you've that very first all of a sudden there's no kids, there's you know, the all the lights are not left on in the house, the air conditioning's not left on, and you think, well, is this liberation or is is this just how it's going to be? Or you're waiting for the front door to open and say, Oh, big mistake, we're coming home.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Yeah, well, I think, you know, you we spend uh and all parents can relate to this that you, you know, the first 15, 20 years of your kid's life, uh, you're so involved in their whole world and their whole and everything, and you know where they are and what they're doing, and um their life, your life is their life. You know, it's you live your life through theirs. And then all of a sudden, when they start moving out, um, and you don't know where they are and you don't know what they're doing, and it's it it can be hard to let go. And I know I know of people, not very close to me, but I know of people who uh really struggle to let go and are constantly messaging their kids about where are you? Are you okay? Are you safe? When you know, when are you coming over and all that? And I don't want to be that parent. I I hope I I don't think I'm that parent. I don't want to be hassling my kids like that because really when you know we we raise them to go out and spread their wings. And I don't want to be trying to pull them back to the nest. I want them to go out and live their best lives and you know, doing what they're doing.

SPEAKER_05 5:25

But there's a massive silence adjustment too, I found that all of a sudden you need to have the television on, you need to have the radio on, you need to have something on because every couple of minutes it's dad, mum, or and all of a sudden there's nothing. There's the panting at the back door from the dog that's saying, Well, you know, don't talk about cat like that. Come out and play. Um, so I found that silence adjustment quite sort of confronting. Um, it's it's almost like being in a low budget thriller where you're just waiting for something to happen and something come out from behind the door. Yeah. But there's there's also guilt that goes with it, I think, sometimes that you know you realize that you've got some freedom and you sort of have to think, oh, what am I going to do for dinner? Because you're not preparing something or you don't know whether the kids are going to be home and you cook for four instead of just one. Or I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Well, there's a whole that's a really big adjustment for, you know, when you're used to shopping for four or five people, and then all of a sudden you you're doing it, you're doing it for two, I'm doing it for one. Um, and it obviously your grocery bill goes down, but then I've still got, you know, I've got one at home and I've still got one dropping in um occasionally, and I I never know when. And just how much food do I cook? How much food do I buy? What do I need? And what do I need to have? And you you've at some point just got to go, well, no, I've got to look after myself. And if they're gonna come over and have dinner, they need to tell me so that I can be prepared. But it's a it is a big adjustment, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 6:53

It's a huge adjustment. Um, and I know you've you've still got one at home. And when I was around at your place the other week, there was, was it lamb chops or something that was getting cooked in the middle of the day for my lunch or whatever?

SPEAKER_02 7:04

I know, the middle of the day. Mama wants lamb. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:07

And and that's something I would never do. Like if it was just you or I at home, I'm sure we wouldn't think, oh, I think I'm gonna cook myself some lamb chops. So there's a grocery shock, you're right. Uh, and if you've got boys, well, gosh, all of a sudden you're thinking, what am I gonna do with the rest of this money that all of a sudden I've got that's not coming into hollow legs? Oh my gosh, I can now retire five years earlier because I've got superannuation.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

Absolutely, absolutely. But I think with um I think with empty nesting, there's a sense of grief and and loneliness and maybe loss of purpose for for a lot of parents. And you really have to, I just don't think there's enough credit given to um to help us work through that. You know, you're just supposed to let your kids go, yay, I'm free. And but it it's not always like that, you know. And um you you can it's you you kind of lose your caregiving identity, and and then who am I now if I'm not that? You're always a parent, but who am I if I'm not that person that's hands-on every day?

SPEAKER_05 8:06

Well, there's a lot of things that go along with that. There's certainly if you're a couple, you're having to rediscover each other because you're always bouncing off whoever else is in the house. And then when there's no one, all of a sudden, you know, you have to wind back the clock, you know, whether it's you know 20, 25, whatever you is, and say, well, now it's just us. Or if you're if you're a single parent, you start to say, Well, I've got a bit of an identity crisis now. Like, do I have to find a new hobby? Do I have to find a passion? If I'm working, um, you know, all those things come into play. And it's so it's not just about the kids going, it's about about you know, you as a person, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Well, well, talk me through that because it, you know, from your perspective, you know, you you're married at you and Kath. How did you find that difficult to re did you have to rebuild a relationship with Kath or or did the relationship just change when the kids moved out?

SPEAKER_05 9:02

Well, of course, it it grows, doesn't it? It evolves throughout your throughout your sort of married life, or you know, whether you're married or whether you, you know, you've got a partner that's you know been a part of your life for a long time, you evolve anyway. But because you haven't got that commonality um with kids, um, yeah, that that evolution all of a sudden says, well, you both feel free, but you're not going to have the same passion and hobbies and things. And so you might be into painting or you might be into your sport. Um, do you all of a sudden then just have your own individual, you know, hobbies and then meet up at dinner time and say, oh, geez, I had a great day doing this? Or do you then find something that you do have in common again and enjoy that? I mean, it's it's so hard. Everyone's different, everyone's an individual. Um, but it's I think where we've been lucky is we've had grandkids. So, you know, we might spend a day or two days a week, and that's a commonality. That's that where we find our our plimpsal line and say, right, we're we're now being grandparents. Um, and that's that's that next next step. Um outside of that, you do you got a little bit of freedom, I guess. Um, but there is a rediscovering period that's and that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Like that, I think that's wonderful. But I think there for a lot of people, they realize that the kids were the only thing keeping them together. And that they'll after the kids have gone, and people, you know, you hear the stories of people who stay together because of the kids. And then once the kids are gone, they look at each other and go, well, hang on, we don't actually have anything in common anymore. And that's when a lot of relationships break up.

SPEAKER_05 10:44

And and it's really hard, isn't it? Because you you've you've had this relationship for, you know, whether it's 10 years, 20 years, whatever it is, um, and there's a sense of, am I, you know, do I just persevere with this? Do I just put push on? Um and they're they're adult children. I mean, they they will understand if this isn't still working. Um, it's not like you love your kids any less. Um, but there is that that it's an old slipper sort of mentality sometimes where, oh, you know, I might be in my 60s and uh it's all too hard, so we just coexist. Which, you know, given our lifespans these days, you you've got plenty of living to be done. Um, and if you're not happy in that situation, you probably don't just persevere and say, well, you know, this is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Yeah, I can't I can't imagine staying in a relationship just because oh, you know, we're in our 60s now and splitting up now that the kids have gone is going to be too hard and splitting assets and all that kind of stuff. I can't imagine staying in a relationship for those reasons, you know, and and for what you just said, you've still got plenty of life to live. So why why settle for, okay, well, you know, this is it now, and I'll stay with him even though it's not great. Um, because the alternative of trying to reset yourself up financially is just too hard, you know, with cost of living and stuff.

SPEAKER_05 12:09

There's definitely a relationship reset that's involved in the empty nesters. Um, and whether that's based on, you know, your financial situation. I mean, I a lot of our friends, you know, think, oh, we're gonna travel, we're gonna do all those sort of things. And I know we had a guest uh quite a few seasons ago who was saying, travel is great, you know, but what are you gonna do for the other, you know, 40 odd weeks of the year? Because that's that's that's real, that's life. Um, and to say, oh, I'm going over to Europe for six weeks or I'm going to you know Central Australia, but there is every day, whether it's, you know, oh, let's go and paint the laundry together or let's go and do coffee or something, it's a long time from your 60s through to whenever, and we don't know whenever is.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Yeah, that's that's why I think we talked about this in an earlier episode with a psychologist about transitioning before your kids move out and transitioning before you retire so that you have, you know, kind of have a life yourself before the kids move out, and you've got your own friends and you're doing your your own, if you're completely committed to your to your children and nothing else, and that's not a bad thing. You've just got to be prepared for when that all stops. And if you if you identify only as a parent, then and then all of a sudden your kids are gone. Who am I?

SPEAKER_05 13:34

I I used to wonder why um after I'd moved out, you know, you'd get these random visits from your parents, and you think, oh my gosh, I like I saw you a week ago. And now I realise that it was more about them than about me. Um, because we well, we're not necessarily in the kids' back pockets and then they need us for doing things, but even if they didn't need us for whatever, we would probably be fighting the urge to be popping around once a week with the, you know, oh look, I I I made a little extra for dinner, put it in the freezer or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

I think once a week's okay. If you're going around there more than that, you're probably being a little bit doing the right thing. But I think once a week's okay.

SPEAKER_05 14:21

Yeah, look, um we don't see all our kids all the time like that. Like with the with the grandkids, yes, you know, it's it's a necessity because we're called on and we love it, you know. It's it's that it's that new thing. No, I'm excited to tell us. So so almost it's a reverse boomerang sort of situation, is it, where the instead of the kids coming back, you're actually going to the kids' place. Um, but also you've still got the one at home. Um, is there a time where you can see where that will all change and it will just be you? Or do you think, you know, how how how's that look in your work?

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Well, it's it's interesting you should say that because the the one that's still at home is um is going overseas in the next couple of days for a month. So I'll pretty much be on my own for this month, and I'd be interested to see how I go. And you know, I I I miss her company and I miss talking to her, but it'd be interesting to see how I go on this next month with the completely empty house. And um, yeah, so I'd I hope I'd be okay if she moved out, but um, I'm sure I would be. I just have to, you've just got to keep those connections, work at keeping those connections with with your friend circle and and your people. But uh, and um and because I'm still working full-time, I have those people in my life as well. So um not really feeling it too much at the moment, but we'll see how it goes. But the other thing I wanted to say, the one of the things that can worsen emptiness syndrome, I think, is that other big life changes happen at the same time. Like for women, you know, there could be menopause. Uh, obviously, retirement happens. There's a lot going on for people uh our age. You know, when you get to 60, there's and and you may still have your parents alive. So the whole transitional period between your 50s and 60s is there's a lot going on, you know, and and your kids could be getting married and having children like yours. So it's it's it's an interesting space to navigate, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 16:21

Yeah, and like I say, reclaiming some of that emotional space is really hard because you're right. I mean, some of us do have parents who are still still with us, and so we're we're dealing with their health health issues in in in a lot of circumstances. Um we're at an age where our health, you know, occasionally you'll think, oh, geez, isn't it great getting old? Uh, the alternatives aren't that, you know, great, but it is there are those issues too. And so there is a lot going on in your world. Um, and you've only got so much headspace to be able to fit all that in. So um, if you've got one, two, three, who knows how many kids all moving out as well, they probably need your help. So there's a lot going on, you know, in in our world. Um, we're through most of that. Unfortunately, my folks have are not longer, no longer with us, and and the girls are all doing their own thing. But that doesn't mean that we don't have a lot going on as well. But um, yeah, I'm all I used to always be worried about kids deciding I'm out of home for 12 months and now I'm coming back. Just when you're starting to get your house the way you want it, and uh there's not, you know, three bedrooms full of dirty clothes that are just lying around. Um, is that something that uh has happened to you yet?

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Or yeah, a little bit. Um, a little bit with just one, I've only got one messy room now, big per room. Um, the rest of the house is spick and span. But I can remember just going back to um my mum, because my dad died when I was quite young, and I when I left home, I would go home to see mum, and there the house would be absolutely spotless. There'd be no coffee mugs, like absolutely, you know, if you put your coffee mug down, she'd whip it up and take it into the kitchen and quickly clean it. And it was almost a little sad that she didn't, you know, she I don't know, I guess trying to control her little space and keep it nice, which is lovely. But I don't know what I'm trying to say here is that she I thought lost her purpose a little bit without you know, my sister and I being at home and she had to rebuild her life. And I think um that that's you know very hard to you know re-work out who who what's what's my identity now. If I don't identify as a mother with kids at home, what's who am I?

SPEAKER_05 18:52

Well, we had uh I didn't know whether to be I think I was insulted about a fortnight ago when one of our kids came home and she opened up opened up the fridge and said, Oh my gosh, you're just like popping grandma, like there's hardly anything in the fridge. And I was like, well, you know, what were you looking for? You know, you've come round off spec, uh like did you want an absolutely you know, chocker block fridge full of whatever it was when you were 18 and now you're in your 30s, you're expecting that because you know there's only two of us. Uh, we don't need a fridge that's you know, just got every sort of you know, catering for every style. That's right. And and usually there'd only be like a spoonful of yogurt eaten and then the rest left on the counter or whatever. Um, so yeah, I thought, oh no, am I becoming my father?

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Um they're very judging, aren't they? They come home and judge us by what's in the fridge.

SPEAKER_05 19:48

It it's happened to me, so uh it can happen to you too. And and and it looks like when the grandkids come, like you they wander in and you you know you've got everything where you want it to be. And then by the end of the day, you think, my gosh, how did we get through the first five years of their life and think, oh, I'm not trekking treading on Lego, I'm not, you know, oh look, oh, there's the crayons. Oh, who knew you could actually put pencils in that little cavity there? Um, yeah. I I know when the girls were young, I had one of the early Macintoshes, and it wouldn't work. It would not work for love no money. And they'd stuff something in the CD drive that wasn't supposed to be there. And you know, I don't know whether I missed that. Uh but there you go. Hey, listen, would would you reclaim any of the rooms? Like if you've got say two or three bedrooms, what what what would you reclaim? Would you leave them as bedrooms or would they be your little art studio? Well, is there something you do?

SPEAKER_02 20:52

No, no, well, it's funny. I I'm going through this downsizing thing at the moment and minimizing. I'm trying to get rid of a lot of stuff. Uh, so I don't necessarily want to create a room with stuff in it. I I think I'd leave you know the beds in there and that's about it. I don't want to get more stuff. I actually want to get rid of stuff. So what about you? You you've got some, you've got lots of rooms.

SPEAKER_05 21:15

And of course, you need to have those rooms for when all your kids come back. Yeah, well, when all the kids come back, you know, all those 365 days of the year that they're going to be coming back all at the same time. Um no. Uh look, they they've they've all got their own room at our at our place, and they all would have been in those rooms maybe five or six times over the last 12 months at the same time, which you know apparently justifies it. Um but yeah, um look well.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Do you do you keep the rooms the way so that you're always ready if they do decide to come back? And that's the other thing is what if they move back home? What if they go and then you kind of rediscover yourself and set yourself? Up as a you know, without them, and then 12 months later they're back home again, and then the dynamic shifts again.

SPEAKER_05 22:06

Well, that's something that I was initially not so much worried about. It happened once or twice to us, but only a short period of time. I think there was a culture shock when one or two of them moved back and thought, oh, this isn't the same house I left, you know, six months ago. I think I need to be out of here again. Yeah. Um maybe there wasn't enough in the fridge. I don't know. Um, but yeah, it is for a lot of people. Um, and so many now you see, you know, blokes in particular, apparently, that are staying into their late 20s, early 30s, still with mum and dad under the same roof. Um, I don't know whether that's an economic thing or it's just a I think it's fine.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

I think a lot, yeah, there's a lot of shame attached to staying at home when you're a bit older, but the cost of housing is ridiculous. And yeah, I don't blame people at all for doing that. But the other thing to think about is that when in my situation, when I've got two out in one home, the dynamic changes between the one that you've got at home, because all of a sudden you've got that kid to yourself, um, and you're not sharing your time between three of them, that your relationship with that one at home change, you know, the whole dynamic changes within your with your children.

SPEAKER_05 23:17

Particularly if if it's uh say uh your your kids and the and a partner or or a husband or a wife, and because of the you know the cost of living and renting, whether the whole family moves back in, that's another dynamic that you you see these days. So all of a sudden, you know, the pair of you have got like now two adult children and maybe an another one. Uh a friend of ours had um situation where they were living in uh like a three-bedroom unit sort of thing, and they had one of their kids move back with um uh a grandchild as well. So all of a sudden, you know, they'd downsized and now they're welcoming back a son and a grandchild as well. So that's you know there's so many things that are you know that just part of our modern world that we have to deal with that probably our parents did, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

Yeah, exactly. And and also the fact that the child who is still at home, it might be grieving, you know, her siblings not being here. Because I notice when when the boys come over, she gets very excited to have them back home. Um, so there's all of that stuff that we're navigating all the time. Um that, and one of the things that I've I've got to, I'm sort of thinking about starting to come to terms with or thinking about how I'm gonna handle it, is you know, what if I meet somebody and I want to bring him home and she's still here. So it's you know, it's still her house. It's and and um I've got to navigate how do I, if I do meet somebody and bring them home, I'm bringing them into her home as well as mine.

SPEAKER_05 24:49

Yeah, I think I think ground rules have to be set, you know. Um and and they're adults, it's not like they're 16, they they they understand. Um, but some kids may not care. So I'm I'm wishing you luck with that one.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

Yeah, yeah. Well, I've I've started to prepare her for it by saying things like, she'll say to me, What are you doing Friday night, Mum? And I'll say, Oh, well, you know, all the firemen are coming over and we're gonna have a huge party and there's gonna be 80s music, and she just rolls her eyes at me and goes, Oh my god. So of course, that's not gonna happen, that doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_05 25:23

No, no, no, no one plays 80s music anymore, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Oh, that's right. I'm just sitting home watching the ABC, but it just plants that seed in her head that you know, maybe maybe one day mum might meet somebody.

SPEAKER_05 25:34

So that that Feynman's poll that you've got at your place, that's that's for decorative purposes only.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Nobody knows about that. Sorry. What are you saying?

SPEAKER_05 25:45

Hey, if you had if you had to describe that empty nest in you know, a word like freedom or panic or what would it be? Well would be the would the word that you you're looking at. This is you now saying, Oh, I'm I'm I'm free. I don't know, what is it?

SPEAKER_02 26:05

No, I don't know. Free is not a word for me. Um I think rediscovery.

SPEAKER_05 26:10

Okay, good word.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Yeah, identity, rediscovery, um, those sorts of things. Who am I now if I'm not a full-time mum?

SPEAKER_05 26:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Um, and do I like what I see in myself now that you know so that yeah. What about you?

SPEAKER_05 26:26

What words are Oh look, uh, it was always quiet. Always it was always quiet. But I'm not saying that that was a good thing because uh it's nice to have uh that that active sort of uh busyness around you. Uh not everyone, it's not for everyone. I like having things happening around me all the time. Um not that they're out of control, not that it's chaos and Stephen Hawking and and you know the universe or you know, but if if there's something happening, and I think that's something that we we're either dealing with, we're we're thinking about dealing with, or eventually it's it's gonna happen. Um whether people force their hand and say, Okay, we're gonna downsize now. So sorry, kids, you're gone. Uh I I don't I don't know. Everyone's got their own their own life to live and their own rules to play by.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

So yeah, well, I said to I said to the kids, you know, we talked about me downsizing um to an apartment or something like that, and and um my daughter said, Will I have a second bedroom for me? And she's fully expecting to come with me, I think. Which is wonderful, which is which speaks volumes about our relationship. But um, yeah, it's it's interesting, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 27:34

Well, you've got a not only a daughter, you've got a bestie too. So I've got a what? A bestie.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

A bestie?

SPEAKER_05 27:40

A bestie, yeah. That's that's young people talk, remember? You know, you've got a bestie.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

Black bate friends?

SPEAKER_05 27:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Yeah.

unknown 27:46

I know.

SPEAKER_05 27:47

It's time, it's it's time to go. I'll see you later.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

I will talk soon.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

Bye. The views and opinions expressed on the Big 6-0 are personal and reflect those of the hosts and guests. They do not represent the views or positions of any affiliated organizations or companies. This podcast is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be construed as professional advice. Please consult with a qualified professional for guidance on any personal matters.

SPEAKER_04 28:18

Ah, and before we go, let's give credit where credit is due. Kayleigh Harris and I came up with all the genius content for this week's episode. Our producer, Nick Abood. Well, he keeps the lights on and makes sure we don't accidentally upload a cat video instead of a podcast. So, thanks for keeping us on track, Nick. Nick. Nick