Speaker 0:07

If you're old enough to remember when phones had cords and the only thing that went viral was a cold, then you're in the right place. Welcome to the Big Sticks To with Kaylee Harris and Guy Rowlison. Because who better to discuss life's second act than two people who still think mature is a type of cheese?

Speaker 3 0:42

Well, hello, and welcome to the Big Six O podcast. My name's Kayleigh Harris, and joining me in the studio each week. Well, he's at his his place, I'm at mine. Guy Rowliso, hello and welcome.

Speaker 2 0:53

Well, hello, how are you?

Speaker 3 0:56

I'm good, thank you.

Speaker 2 0:57

Oh, what's been happening?

Speaker 3 1:00

You know, usual stuff.

Speaker 2 1:01

I know.

Speaker 3 1:02

It's just usual stuff. It just goes hectic. It just goes hectic, doesn't it? Certainly does. Certainly does. Hey, um, I was recently watching a documentary on SBS called The Last Goodbye. And I don't know if I mentioned this to you or not, but it was hosted by Ray Martin, and the series explores different ways of saying your final goodbye, and it was sort of premised around Ray planning his own funeral and what he wanted. Um, what I liked about it was it was really raw and really confronting, and it made me think it would be a really good topic for a podcast. Now, as you know, I worked in the funeral industry for a couple of years back in the 90s, and that really changed my views around death and dying. Um, if you are someone who is off to a funeral, 99% of people will say, I hate funerals. And no one will ever say they enjoy them, but we would all like to think that our own funeral would be a celebration of a life well lived, right? We all want.

Speaker 2 1:59

Yeah, it's becoming more about that, isn't it?

Speaker 3 2:01

Yeah, definitely. And I think of the uh part of the problem is is the fear surrounding death. Uh, what happens after death, I guess that depends on your beliefs. Uh, joining us for this episode, we've invited Asha Dooley in. Now, she's managing director at Graced Funerals, and she's also president of Funerals Australia, and she's joining us in the podcast this week. Hi, Asha

Speaker 4 2:22

Hi, thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 3 2:24

That's okay. Now, in your role as a funeral director, I'm sure you've seen the best and worst of funerals in terms of uh human emotion and behaviour. Uh, what have you learned from that? What can you share about that?

Speaker 4 2:39

I'm very lucky. So I've been a funeral director for close to 15 years now, which in our world is probably I'm a newbie, but I've seen a few things in that time because I'm a hands-on funeral director as well, meaning that I'm meeting client families, going on funeral services, you know, doing the whole gamut of things, transferring loved ones into care, all of it. Um, I've got to say that in my time, I can count on one hand how many people I don't think have behaved very well. Everybody else is just delightful. They are, I would say the overwhelming emotion after grief, obviously, is confusion. Um, people, it's the well, statistically, we know that you're only ever going to plan two funerals in your life, most likely. Um, which means that typically when you come to me, you're probably an adult, like a fully fledged adult, probably in your, you know, sort of later years, and you're probably planning a funeral for a parent, um, and it will be your first experience. And it's not often that in your 50s and 60s you do something for the very first time. So as a result, there is a confusion there. And I think there's a lot of mystique around the industry, which we're trying so hard to get rid of because it shouldn't be mysterious. We are open and honest, we want you to know everything that we're doing, really. Um, and so I think overwhelmingly people are just sort of confused, and and once they've gotten someone to sort of, I guess, collectively hold their hand and guide them through the process gently, they just feel so much better about it. So I would say that 99.9% of the people that I've met in my 15 years are just really lovely people, and they're confused and they just want someone to help them.

Speaker 2 4:10

What's something about funerals, Asher, that most people probably completely misunderstand and until they actually have to arrange one themselves?

Speaker 4 4:19

Ooh, I don't know. Probably that there's a lot more work to it than people think, maybe. Um, there's there's very involved what we do, and and with any luck, you don't know half of what we do because not that we're trying to hide it, but because a lot of it's sort of dull paperwork and things like that that we just take care of. I don't want you to know that we've spent, you know, four hours arguing with your doctor's surgery because your doctor can't get their stuff together to get me the paperwork that is quite basic, nothing to do with the family. It does, they don't need to know about that stuff. That's just all the things that we do. Um, there's many, many, many options of anything that you can do. Um, I believe that probably 98% of funerals that we do these days are celebrations of life. They might have the name funeral, but you know, I've go to very, very few sad, I mean, obviously they're sad because we've lost a loved one, but very few morbid and depressing funerals. I say that most of the ones that we go to are in the nicest way, sort of lighthearted, because we're celebrating the life of the person that was lived. So um, yeah, I think there's a lot of things people don't know about what we do. Um, and like I said, we're trying so hard to get that education out there at the moment because we don't want to be shrouded in mystery. We want everyone to know exactly what we're doing, we want it to be fully transparent. Um, more and more cemeteries and crematoriums are doing open days so you can walk through facilities. Um, you know, I do a lot on social media about death education. Like we're just trying to get the word out there so people understand what we're doing.

Speaker 3 5:41

I guess also the conversation depends on whether someone has uh died after living a long, well-loved life, or if the person dies prematurely or tragically, is it possible for the latter to be positive?

Speaker 4 5:56

Yes, but obviously the grief is different. So when you've lived, you know, if you're saying goodbye to someone that's, you know, in their late 90s and they've got surrounded by their grandkids and they've like lived a life well-lived, obviously they're that's a different story to when, you know, someone who's much younger has passed away in in whatever circumstances, whether it's an illness or um or something sudden. Now, I do find that there's a difference in um someone that's had an illness at whatever age, because if you've had a long illness, particularly if you've watched someone deteriorate over a period of time, or you've watched them in be in pain, or you've watched them not live the life that they want to live, a few things have happened. You've likely had a good opportunity to say goodbye in person. You've likely had a good opportunity to make sure that there was no words unsaid and that you could let them know how much you loved them and you could ask them about how they were feeling. So, and on one level, because they've likely been in pain and not been living the life they want, I think there is, and I'm gonna say the word level of relief, but I mean that in the way that if their loved one had been how they should have been, that would have been the preference. Now, the shock, the second one to that is when someone has passed unexpectedly and suddenly, and particularly well, it doesn't matter how old you are, actually, with this one, but particularly if you're younger. Um there's just, well, firstly, you've got to get through the shock that someone has passed. And then there might be things that you didn't get to say or things that didn't even occur to you to talk about, because you know, someone who's in their 40s, why would you have talked about a funeral? Like really, like you just sort of shouldn't. And then obviously there's all of that sort of grief emotion of uh what they didn't get to do and all of the things they'd wanted to do, and and there's potentially children and family and loved ones that didn't get to say goodbye properly. I mean, it's it's a very different experience from a grief perspective. And then from a funeral, as a funeral director, it's it's our role to to take the family, to listen to the family, and to ensure that we're assisting them do the service that they need to have, to say goodbye. Um, we highly encourage a viewing, particularly if someone, if it's been a shock, because we know that that helps you with your grief journey. And then if we had a younger person, I would be encouraging the family, if they wanted to, to have it in an alternative location, something that feels more authentic to a young person, than say something that might feel more authentic to your 98-year-old grandmother. And I think that's the thing. It's just listening, making sure we're caring, planning, and guiding families for what it is that they want. Um, but yeah, I you still hear people laughing, even if the service is very sad and tragic. You can have a laugh and still have a cry. You can experience all of the emotions in a funeral and it can still be very authentic. And it's important people know that there's no bad emotion at a funeral. People often say to me, Oh, I'm trying not to cry. I'm like, why? It's a funeral. You know, they call it a good cry for a reason. It makes you feel better and you want to get those emotions out. So yeah, I think we can still celebrate a young person's life, but the the feelings behind it are different.

Speaker 2 8:55

Does that mean, Asher, that traditional funerals are becoming less common or our perception of what a funeral is? Or are they just evolving? And and and say over the last 10 or 20 years, in terms of what families want, has that changed as well?

Speaker 4 9:12

Definitely. In terms of what families want, it's definitely changed. And I will reference the baby boomers here. The baby boomers are the generation that changed everything. Baby boomers changed how weddings look, baby boomers change how a lot of things look, and they're changing the way that funerals look. And I've got to tell you, funeral directors, we are here for it. We are ready, we're just waiting for everyone to sort of catch up, really. And and I'm talking about traditional funeral directors, which I would consider myself a traditional funeral director, but I am doing funerals in all locations, in all manner of things. Um, I think that we have evolved, and I will say I'm very lucky and I get to travel all over the world to see what other countries are doing. And I'm quite convinced Australia is probably the leading country of funerals, and I will say that, even if I get in trouble, I don't care. I think we're doing it the best. I think we listen to the families the most, and I think we impart the least amount of judgment on any change. So, whatever you want, we want to do it for you. We just want to make sure that it's done really well, that your loved ones really cared for, and that your family is really supported. But yes, it's it's changing, it's evolving. Anything you can imagine that I can physically do and is legal, I'll let's do it. Sounds like fun. Let's make sure that that funeral happens for you. You know, I've seen coffins on dragon boats. I've certainly been to more golf clubs than I can count. Um, and not because they're a golfer, but because golf clubs are beautiful. So sometimes they're a golf club, uh, golfer, sometimes it's just that they're lovely. Um, where else have we been? Uh outdoor amphitheatres, people's backyards. I did a gorilla funeral once where we went to a lagoon. I may or may not have asked for permission for that one and hoped for the best. But you know, we just went everywhere. It's we whatever you can think of, we're doing it. But even a traditional funeral doesn't look like a traditional funeral did. So what people would consider a traditional funeral these days is going to a sort of a chapel, probably, you know, like one of the crematorium chapels. There's a ritual that we follow, which is sort of like an introduction, some farewell words, um, you know, probably a song or a photo story, then some more farewell words, and then we have a song to leave. Even that's much more personalized than it probably was, you know, 25 years ago. You know, we almost always have a photo story now. We'll almost always have words of tribute. There's the music will be whatever it is that was appropriate for that family member. It's all much more personalized now, and that's how it should be, because it's not a cookie-cutter experience. It is a life that was well lived, and we need to celebrate and recognize that.

Speaker 3 11:37

One of the things I loved about uh the Ray Martin documentary was it was everything from you can have your ashes put into fireworks and shot out into the sky. And I love that. I thought that is me. You know, I want them, my kids to look up and see fireworks and go, oh, there's mum, you know, or you can you can even be buried standing up on a rural property somewhere out western New South Wales if you wanted to. It's a bit harder, but I would just say a bit harder, but it's doable.

Speaker 4 12:04

Yeah.

Speaker 3 12:05

It's doable at sea. Burial at sea, yeah. We scattered my dad's ashes from an aeroplane because he was a pilot. So all that what that's what I love about the industry is it's it seems to have opened up a lot more, as you said, in the last 20 years. You can pretty much do whatever you want as long as it's legal and that's what we're doing.

Speaker 4 12:24

Well, really as long as you can think of it, because there's actually almost no regulation in what we do, which has its own issues. But on one level, the issues with that is that we do worry about the people that are caring for your loved one and and what are they doing, because in a lot of cases it's not being checked properly, which is why, as a Funerals Australia president, we suggest using one of our members because we do self-regulation and check. The benefit of limited regulation is that there's no rules in terms of the fun stuff that we can do. Um, and so as long as I can find a venue that'll allow me to bring a coffin, I can bring a coffin, you know. Scattering your dad's ashes out of a plane might be a grey area, but not my rule. But I do it. I think it sounds like fun. Um, but heading, you know, uh going onto a yacht and heading out into Sydney Harbour or something like that to scatter ashes, that's getting increasingly more popular. Um the firework company is called Ashes to Ashes, and we work with them quite closely, um, trying to work with them more because that's what I would like as well. You know, I'm a big girl.

Speaker 2 13:20

So that's that's really a thing.

Speaker 4 13:21

Oh, it's really, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's on our website, like Ashes to Ashes is what they're called. They're amazing. Um, his name's Craig, um, and he sort of puts it all together, and then they do a bit of a memorial, and so they work it out. My understanding of how they work, and he can fix me up if I'm wrong, but is it um it takes a little bit of time to organise? So it's actually only a tiny percentage of your ashes, so you're not even making a final choice. So you'd have the funeral, and then this is sort of like a memorial thing you'd do down the track. Um, and then you'll sort of pick the location that's um for you, and then your family can gather and watch the fireworks go up and say goodbye that way. But it's a whole secondary way that you can say goodbye. I think it's great.

Speaker 2 13:59

I love it. And and listen, Kayleigh, I don't want you to do a try before you buy and think, oh, I might just draw a leg this week and see what it looks like beforehand. Hey Asher, what does it what does a good funeral actually look like in your view, given that there's such a spectrum these days of requests and honestly, it depends what the family needs.

Speaker 4 14:18

So for me, a good funeral looks authentic to the person who's passed away. So if I am looking after a family and I knew the person who passed away from the Catholic Church and she was there every week, if we weren't doing a full Catholic Requiem Mass for her, I would think that was not a good funeral for that particular person. Having said that, the opposite is also true. If I've got someone that's an atheist and they wanted to have a Catholic service, I would be maybe questioning of that. So for me, it's whatever's authentic to the person, which is why the first thing we do is listen to the family, understand what they want, understand their budget as well. You know, everyone's got a budget. Um, you might want the moon and back, but your budget might be a little bit less. So then we've got to work out how to get you both things at once. So yeah, a good funeral for me is something that's personalised to the person that's passed away and that works for the family who is still living. Because ultimately the funeral is about the deceased, but it's for the living. Um, and it's for them to get to say goodbye and have that moment where they get to say goodbye to their loved one.

Speaker 3 15:35

Uh just so just on that, are funeral costs negotiable? Because I think there's a, you know, when you're so vulnerable, if you've just lost somebody, um, and and I've been to funerals where people say, I want the very best casket for mum, I don't care the expense, just give me the very best one with all the trimmings and everything else. Um, is there, I guess, a propensity there, can people be um taken advantage of in that situation in terms of cost or are the costs negotiable?

Speaker 4 16:07

So I do worry that people could be taken advantage of. Um, with my company, you know, the costs are not negotiable. And I'll tell you why. It's because we're fully upfront and transparent with you, both before you come in on our website and once you're with us. Um and in the way that I can help you with your budget, for example, is to ensure that you might want an $8,000 coffin or casket, but your budget lends yourself to a small, to not that. So we would negotiate in terms of, hey, this is what it is, this is the cost you've built up so far, this is how much it is all costing going forward. So if you were looking at Grace funerals, when you're doing what we call a funeral arrangement, um I'll have everything that's happening on a TV behind me, including how much everything is costing. So what our professional fee will be, what the mortuary care fee, the transfer to bring your loved one into our care. It's all very clearly itemized for you to see as we're going. So when you get to coffins and flowers, you know how much you've already spent. So you know what is going on for your budget from there. Um, the reason we don't negotiate is because we believe in being very open and transparent, which is also part of the law. In New South Wales, there's through fair trading, there's the Pricing Transparency Act. Each other state has some version of that or are getting a version of that, which means that I need to have all of my prices up on my website. If you call me, I need to be able to provide you with a price list and it needs to be clear and transparent. So I'll be honest with you, if someone is negotiating you with costs, I would be wondering why they weren't giving you the sharpest pricing each time. Like it's like walking into, I'm gonna say Harvey Norman, but that's probably not good because they probably do negotiate. But it's like going in anywhere where it's a fixed price, you should know that you're getting what your price is gonna be, what you're getting for that, um, and going forward from there. One of the things that I always say to everyone is if you are looking for a funeral director, I ask three questions. The first question is who will I be dealing with? Because if I like the person I'm talking on the phone with, I want to know that I'm not dealing with some sort of call century thing. I want to know where my loved one is because there's a lot of shared mortuary and public mortuaries around and the sort of the low-cost operators, that's how their things go. And I don't know who's looking after my loved one then. And the third thing I ask is the price of a service. And the reason I ask that one specifically is I want to know that you are going to be up front with me. I want to know that you're going to be clear and transparent with me. I want to know that you are going to make sure that I've got that in writing or at least a detailed quote over the phone that I can check it out on the website because I believe that pricing should be clear and upfront. Um, certainly all Funerals Australia members have been doing this for many years prior to the pricing transparency coming in. It's been one of our requirements that before you leave a funeral arrangement, you have a full estimate of costs. And again, if you're working with my particular company, we're going to make sure that if you make a big change throughout your arrangement like process after you've left it, sorry, look when you leave an arrangement process, I will give you a very clear itemized costs, which shouldn't change unless there's a few things I don't know, like a cost of a newspaper will change. So we've got an estimate in there and we're clear about that. But if you then come back to me a couple of days later and say, look, we really want to change the coffin to this one, which is much more expensive, I'll then reiterate with you, this is going to be the new cost, this will be the new total cost, we'll probably send it to you again so that you're aware of it. So yeah, um, I hope that sort of answers your question. But no, I don't believe that you should be able to negotiate. I think it should be clear and transparent up front.

Speaker 2 19:34

I think most of us, well, it could be changing, avoid talking about death, funerals, all those sort of things. Outside of cost, though, what are some of the the real stumbling blocks or the the pressures that people feel as though they've been thrust upon them? Because this is a really compressed emotional time, isn't it? And it's not like you've got six months to plan, unless, of course, you have those pre-paid funerals. And I don't know what you think about those either.

Speaker 4 20:01

Two different questions there. Um, why don't I do with the first one? Is I think um timing is probably one of the biggest crunches. There are, whilst there's no set time frame that you do need to do a service in, if you've got a loved one that passed at a nursing home, for example, they're going to ask you to have that loved one brought into someone's care pretty swiftly, like within you know, within a few hours, actually. Um, the hospital might tell you you've got a few days, but legally you've got more like 21 in New South Wales. Each each state has different laws, though. Um, so some people can feel rushed. Um, but there is a fine line for your grief of in terms of planning a service to make sure that you get the timing, not too quick, but not too long either, because otherwise it can draw out and that can't, that cannot help as well. So I think it's important that families know that they shouldn't be rushed. If you've got someone that's passed away at your house that was an expected death, now unexpected death, you do need to bling the police into it. That's not much I can do about that. That's a different process. But if you've got, say, someone that you know was gonna was in palliative care at home, you don't need to rush to call a funeral director. You can. They'll be there pretty swiftly if that's what you'd like. But equally, they will give you the time that you need and the space that you need to say goodbye quietly and calmly at home and make the decisions that you want. You shouldn't feel rushed in a funeral arrangement to make a decision about something. You shouldn't feel pressured to pick something that's sort of more expensive or to do something you don't want to do. But there are sort of some limitations you need to be aware of. You know, if you want to have a service on Tuesday, you might have to be flexible with say who the celebrant is or who where the venue is because your preferred might not be available. So just things like that. But there's always a way around it. If you're if you want a specific venue, we might have to go with an alternative date. If you want a particular date, we might have to look at how we make that work. Um, in terms of pre-planning funerals, I'm a big fan of it. And I actually think people my age, which is sort of, you know, earlier in your sort of 40s, should be looking at at some form of pre-planning. Um, all of uh my friends, unfortunately, people do pass away younger and people haven't talked about it. So with all of my friends, I encourage them with their partners to talk at least about whether that you want to be buried or cremated. Like get one basic thing out because if something tragic was to happen, so many other things are going on in your head. It's so overwhelming that it is nice if you know that one basic, like burial or cremation. We can do a lot with that information and know what we're going to do for a service. So I do think that you should be talking about it even casually at early, nice and early. You can get more formal and do what we call a prepaid or a funeral bond. A prepaid is where you'll have a lock-in contract with a funeral director to do whatever it is that you've asked for. And then no matter when you pass away, that contract will be honoured, probably with comparable things these days because things change so much. But if as long as you make no changes, there'll be no costs. Or my preferred is actually a funeral bond because it adds flexibility. And I call that like a savings account for a funeral. So you might put in, I don't know, $8,000. And at the time, if your funeral only costs six, we'll return $2,000 to your family. If it costs $10, your family will have to chip in a couple of grand to pay for it. But the basis is there.

Speaker 3 23:16

Asher, what happens then in that situation if I've uh got a funeral bond or funeral insurance and the funeral director goes belly up? What happens then? Is am I protected?

Speaker 4 23:26

A couple of things. Funeral insurance is an insurance product, has nothing to do with the funeral industry. It's like completely unrelated to us at all. Having said that, I've seen many families who bought it at the right time for the right price, and it's been very helpful when their loved one has died. Funeral industry, we think that a funeral bond is much better. And the reason being is that I it doesn't matter if I go belly up, the money's not with me. The money is in invested in a friendly society. So the big ones are sort of um Foresters, Financial, Funeral Plan Management, which is Australian Unity, Key Invest. So they're invested there and they are managed by APRA and under APRA laws, not funeral things. So it's actually quite safe. There are a couple of things you should note about a bond or a prepaid. Once your money is in there, you cannot remove it, right? That's how we know it can't go belly up. So you can't, you've got, I think, 30-day cooling off period, and then that money stays there until the person named on the contract has passed away. Um, that's very much a law, it's nothing to do with a company policy. That is uh several laws sort of that that covers that. Um and then it is to be used for the funeral service. So it's kind of it's quite strict, but you can't you're very safe doing that. Um, and it's also non-asset tested with centrelink. So we certainly have people that are going onto pensions that need to get rid of a little bit of money. Um, and I think this year it's currently $15,500, but it does change that that can be invested in there, and then it's it's fine, it then isn't asset tested as well. Um, and these uh they work like a super fund, so they're very low risk um investments, more like a super fund. It's not people think they're earning interest on the product, but it's not, it's really more investments. Um, and depending on what you pick, you can pick sort of high growth or capital guarantee and things like that. But I'm not a financial person, so I should probably not speak more on it to that.

Speaker 2 25:25

You you mentioned gorillas, fireworks. Have you had any, not that they're not bizarre sometimes, any really interesting sort of requests from families or or or whatever?

Speaker 4 25:37

Well, I think, well, yes, but to be honest with you, I've done this for so long that I don't think anything's particularly unusual these days. I'm just sort of roll with whatever anybody wants to do. Um, we've had some great uh what do you call them, processions in where we've had sort of fire trucks and ambulances and then people in on their youths all coming in together and to create quite a spectacle. There's nothing better than seeing sort of, you know, a hundred Harley bikes leading a hearse in or following a hearse, all of that sort of stuff. Um, really alternative locations, like people's backyards are really lovely because that's they're always going to be a bit special and a bit different. Oh, what else? I don't know. I like I said, I don't find anything unusual these days. I just roll with whatever's going on. But um other ones I've seen sort of across the country through our colleagues are um people outside in farms with the the the um the coffin on the back of a like of a track sort of a tractor youth thing or on hay bales instead. So just whatever you can think of. We're we're here for it. We think it's great. Like always makes it super fun and interesting for us as well if we get to use our brains a little bit and get get something that's a little bit more, you know, maybe not something we do every week.

Speaker 2 26:51

Yeah, and it's a little bit cathartic too, I guess, for families and friends, um, that they can actually have those choices as well. But personally, I mean you work around the industry and has it changed the way you think about your own life and and and aging as well?

Speaker 4 27:07

Oh, a hundred percent. I used to, I'm like I said, I only joined the industry about 15 years ago before that. I really didn't have much to do with it. My parents had been working in it for a bit, but I I'm unusual in the terms that I work for a family business and I run a family business, but I didn't grow up in the funeral industry. I grew up my dad wasn't in it, then they joined it when I was just finishing school. So very different for me because I didn't grow up with it. But yeah, I have a few things um that I do. So if you said to me, Hey, do you want to go to Vegas tomorrow? I'd give it a really strong consideration. I can't say I'd always say yes, but I if I if I could make it work, I would probably say yes because I just think that you should do the things because you don't know when you're not going to be able to do them. Um, I'm probably not perfect at this, but I try not to leave too many things unsaid to people. I try and just embrace the experiences. Um, you've got to be sensible because I also have seen many people that have lived through to very old age. So I want to make sure that I'm set up for that. But to the same extent, I've seen far too many people pass away young. So live the experiences, you know, be fit and healthy. But if you want to make pie, have a meat pie. You know, just it's all about balance, I think, and making sure that you spend, you know, more time with family and friends and less time doing stuff that's, you know, like I mean, I love my work, but I was gonna say I try and do the things that I love over the things that don't bring joy.

Speaker 3 28:28

I tried to chat to the kids the other day about, you know, we should talk about my funeral because I really want a casket that's got butterflies all over it because I love butterflies. And um, they're like, Mom, don't talk about it. That's bad luck. And I said, you can't get pregnant talking about sex, and you're not necessarily gonna die because you talk about funerals, you know, it's a conversation. So I agree with you. I think it's really important to have those conversations so that your family then know what you wanted and and how you wanted to say your final goodbye. Asher, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure talking to you, and uh, I hope it's it's given some of our listeners some information that they maybe weren't aware of when planning a funeral. So thank you.

Speaker 4 29:07

Thank you so much for having me and for talking a bit about death.

Speaker 1 29:12

The views and opinions expressed on the Big 6-0 are personal and reflect those of the hosts and guests. They do not represent the views or positions of any affiliated organizations or companies. This podcast is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be construed as professional advice. Please consult with a qualified professional for guidance on any personal matters.

Speaker 2 29:36

Ah, and before we go, let's give credit where credit is due. Kayleigh Harris and I came up with all the genius content for this week's episode. Our producer, Nick Abood. Well, he keeps the lights on and makes sure we don't accidentally upload a cat video instead of a podcast. So, thanks for keeping us on track, Nick. Nick. Nick!