00:00
If you're old enough to remember when phones had cords and the only thing that went viral was a cold,  then you're in the right place. Welcome to the Big Six-O with Kaylee Harris and Guy Rawlison. Because who better to discuss life's second act than two people who still think mature is a type of cheese?

00:26
Well, hello everyone and thanks for joining us on The Big Six Ale.  I'm Guy Rolison and today we're talking about  mothers.  The original emotional support hotline, the guilt distributors  and the only people who can actually ask, have you eaten? Usually about 30 seconds asked, you've already told them you have. And so whether your mum is still here, they're keeping tabs on you from above or they're well into their eighties or nineties and still trying to feed you  like you're on the brink of starvation. This one,

00:55
years for her. And joining me is someone who's living proof that not  all mothers operate the same way because... are you saying? Well, did your mum ever skip that, are you really going out wearing that line? Kayleigh Harris,  how are you? Hello, I'm very well, thank you. And we thought we'd talk about this because last week was Mother's Day  and  we thought we'd talk about the podcast about our mothers, the good, the bad and well, everything in between.

01:23
Yeah, look, we all love our mums. Well, most of us do, don't we? Yeah. Well, yeah, you would hope so. You'd like to think so. They brought you into the world and, you know,  regardless of, you know,  when they're not there, we miss them. Yeah, we sure do. So  let's talk about mothers, okay? Starting from the first mother that I remember was my grandmother's.

01:47
So um I had obviously paternal and maternal grandmothers, but what do you remember about your grandmother's guy?  Oh look, uh not only my grandmother's but my great grandmother. still remember her from when I was  probably, I think she passed away when I was about four or five. ah So my great grandmother  and great grandfather, they lived at Balmain. When Balmain was not the Balmain that we know in Sydney these days, it was a

02:16
very working class suburb.  And I remember my mother and grandmother telling me as a little boy that when I walked into the house,  I had to shake my great-grandfather's hand but not speak until I was spoken to.  But then I was rushed to the back of the house, into the kitchen, which was at the back of the house, where my great-grandmother, my grandmother, and my mother would all be in the kitchen. And that's where the kids would go before we had to go outside and play.

02:46
That three generation thing, I still have memories of being out there with Florence, my grandmother Daphne and my mother Wendy, ah just as a four year old. So many fond memories there. But yeah, that's going back a bit now. That's really weird because I had a great grandmother Florence as well.  Oh my gosh. Wow. Are we related? Are we related by any chance?  I think we must be. We need to do a DNA.

03:15
It could be weirdly related.  I recall one of my grandmothers suffered from depression and I remember her, this sorry figure, you know, and she would be sitting in a chair most of the time smoking very heavily. um My sister and I didn't interact with her too much. I mean, loved her obviously, but you know, she was, she was a sad lady. My other grandmother was very strict  and my sister was just reminding me recently that she slapped me across the face one day for back answering my mother.

03:42
When I was about 10 and I don't remember it, but my sister is still traumatized by her. I remember Nana whacking you across, slapping you across the face. I said, what did I do? And she said, you started crying and I was like, Oh, wow. Well, I probably deserved it. can say that now, but can you even say that you deserve? sure I did. was probably back answering and like you were saying with, you know, you shake hands and don't stop talk until you spoken to. I think there was a lot of that going on with that grandma that I would have.

04:11
probably given her a bit of lip or something and she's given it right back.  It is a generational thing.  I clearly remember  the other thing I remember um from my, once again, I was probably about six or seven and  in that era, and you have to remember that at a certain age, the last great war as far as the second world war is something that your grandparents  had lived through and probably your parents  in a lot of cases. um

04:41
And I remember when we were at school, you'd be playing wars and you'd be whatever. And my father telling me that when we went round to visit, you know, his dad and his mom, that you're not allowed to ask, you know, your grandfather about the war and don't ask him about the tattoos on his arm. Because unlike today, if you had tattoos on your arm, it was usually because you're in the army or the Navy or you didn't serve. You didn't go down to the local tattoo parlor.

05:09
But it was, that was something as well.  My grandmother on my father's side would be sitting at the kitchen table drinking black tea and probably having a cigarette, which is what you did as well.  But yeah, it was one of those things that was drummed into you. Don't talk to your grandparents about the war. uh You just don't touch it.  Yeah, same in our family. I think that's probably in a lot of families as well. But what do you remember about as a young guy? What do you remember about um your mum when you were little?

05:37
What memories do you have of your mum?  Yeah, most of them were pretty fond.  I remember once again, my grandmother, we would go into  the city, like  into Sydney town as mum would call it,  but we'd all get dressed up. Mum would get dressed up. My grandmother would wear gloves and a hat because you'd go Everyone's grandmother wore gloves and a hat. And you'd go into town and probably my earliest memory of

06:06
all that was, oh you'd go to the, I think it was like the  David Jones cafeteria in town. And I'd had a little jacket and a tie. I  had a little jacket and tie.  And because you dressed up when you went into town and you went on the bus and the train, because people didn't have two cars. know, there was a car in a family and that was pretty much it.  And I remember two things vividly.  One is that uh

06:35
I got into David Jane's cafeteria and I'd been brought up that you need to say grace before a meal. so I  knelt on the ground ah and my mother said,  no, love, you don't need to say grace here. But apparently I won a few hearts in the David Jane's cafeteria,  but then didn't win too many hearts next time because  you used to put the money into little riding horses that would be, know, in,  you know,  the

07:03
horses that go backwards and forwards and you put like 20 cents or whatever it is. And I decided there was a little car and I wanted to do that and mum took her eyes off me  for just a minute or two. And I decided clothes are just an unnecessary accessory.  So I took all my gear off and there I am sitting completely naked in this car.  Is that when it started?

07:26
Yeah. And at 22, probably not a good thing to do. don't know. What about you? What's your earliest memories of your mum? Oh, well, same thing. Going into, was Brisbane then, going into Brisbane and to David Jones and you'd all get all dressed up. But my mother was wonderful. I know everyone says that about their mum. She kind of held the family together through some pretty tough times. And I think I may have mentioned this to you before. My mum was an airline hostie with TAA back in the day. And she was

07:54
I look at photos of her now, she was very glamorous and women back in the Audrey Hepburn kind of looks, classic looks and everything.  But she was also  very  religious, uh but not judgmental. It was just something personal to her. But  yeah, she flew for TAA for about, I think it was only about a year because back then you couldn't, um well, then we've discussed this on a previous podcast.  You couldn't work once you got married.

08:23
But yeah, I remember mom  as being very glamorous. And then in the seventies, you know, she had the big brown boots up to her knees and the really cool mini skirts and short dresses. I've seen you in that gear. That's alluring. And the big hair and she had the hair up, you know, and the  big glasses, sunglasses that women wore back then. So-

08:45
Yeah, that's my earliest memories of my mom. She was there a lot more than dad was because he was obviously off working a lot. and mom was home with us. yeah. And we all have fond memories and there's a million stories that we've all got everything from,  know,  whether it's your mom with sort of knee high, thigh high boots or whatever with TAA and my mom. Some of the things that are universal with moms though, things like, I don't know if your mom maybe used to...

09:13
like spitting on their hankie if you've got something on your face and wiping it off. Is that a universal thing with mums? Yeah, absolutely it is. And my mum would put 20 cents into a corner of a hankie and she'd wrap it up in the corner of the hankie in case I needed to phone home in case I was out somewhere and needed to jump in the payphone. I had 20 cents wrapped in the corner of a hankie. But yeah, yeah. And they were always forever putting bobby pins in your hair and

09:38
I know the problem.  No, the problem. But I do remember getting money tied up into a hanky. But what kids carry a hanky anymore? Let alone coins. mean, hankies are considered very, you know,  sanitary these days.  licking, licking the hanky, wiping your face because you've got something on it. I think that's got to be a universal mum tactic. Yeah. Try doing that to your kids these days. In fact,

10:02
I want you to try and do that with your grandchildren and let me know how it goes. uh Yeah, I might try. Did you have a medicine cabinet that had absolutely everything in it at your house? Yep. The Becks, the Aspro Clear, the had all of that stuff in the,  Wow. We  had something called Pink Ointment and I can't remember like Ayrton's or something Pink Ointment and it cured everything.

10:25
Like you could, you could have lost a limb and if you just put a little this pink sort of it. Wasn't calamine lotion, was it? Cause we, think every house had calamine lotion as well. did. They did. Yeah. It was, it was, it was an English thing, I think. And it was pink and it was really thick, but it didn't matter if you put it on and a bandaid, were Everything would be fixed. And it's like Vicks. Like if you had Vicks on your chest and that, that pretty much fixed everything as well. know? So yeah. Well, if you had an injury of any kind and you went home,

10:54
crying and you know mum would,  mum just going there there it's all right love and giving you a kiss on the head and maybe sticking a bandaid or it's funny how the pain just went away and you went straight back outside and kept playing. Yeah it's like that magic water bottle that they used to have at footy like yeah mum recognises that there's an issue  yep okay good okay off you go.  Oh here's your arm as well you know oh thanks mum. um How was your mum with cooking because my mum could do

11:22
magic things with mints and like four times a week and it didn't matter and you never picked up on it. Well, we didn't like a lot of families that I'm sure your family was saying, we didn't have much money when I was a kid. like you were saying, mum could do so many things with mints. She could do shepherd's pie. She could do risoles. She could do a whole bunch of different things.

11:48
Because all we could afford were things like mints or, if we ever had chicken, was the cheapest chicken cuts you could get, or it was just chicken legs or something like that. And, and she used to cook tripe. And I loved tripe until I found out what it was. was like, here's this white stuff coming out with a nice creamy mushroom sauce. Oh great. You know, I'm like, Oh, that's tripe. Oh, great. Okay. And then finally, when I forget how old I was.

12:16
you know, seven or eight ago, by the way, what is tribe? That was the animal. Yeah. I was instantly could never eat it again after that. But you know, our mothers could cook anything. If you just stuck it in front of them, they could cook anything. My mom used to have this theory that if you crumbed anything, oh yeah, people would eat it. Yep. Absolutely. And it wasn't tripe. Although I could have had tripe and I just didn't know it. I remember I must've been 10 and this, this

12:45
thing landed on the plate and it was crumbed.  And it was,  uh, just try it first  and you know, and you'll like  it. You'll like it.  I thought, uh you get that message, you know, that it's not exactly, it's not going to be lamb,  know, it's just not going to be some sort of awful. Yeah, it was, well, it kind of was, and it was sort of, eh it was actually, it was lamb, but it was lamb's tongues.

13:12
Oh, I didn't know. I didn't know you could buy lamb tongue. And I took a bite and I, as soon as you, I thought it tastes okay. But now that I know what it is, not so much, not so much. doesn't matter how much sauce you put on it. It's just not happening. it? Yeah. Well, my, grandfather used to bring home, um, rabbits that he'd been out shooting and it was my grandmother's job to skin them and to cook them. And the same with, they had some chickens in the backyard.

13:42
He'd go down and a chook and bring it up to her. She'd have to pluck it and do everything that she had to do to prepare it for dinner that night. These women were, she was extraordinary. Can you imagine us having to do that? I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. But our grandmothers were very, very strong women and that was just the way they lived. Yep. A hundred percent. Did you also, did you have a mum that like, it could have been, you know,

14:10
a nice day outside, but if there was some cloud, you had to pack a jumper just in case. Yeah, absolutely.  And you know, it's not going to rain,  but just in case. And  the bit of advice you'd get going out the door would be, okay, be careful. And then you'd be gone for eight hours. Yeah. Was that a bit of lip service? I don't know.  Also,  I used to get that occasion,  you'll understand when you're older. Yeah.

14:38
Uh, don't know. don't know. I can't remember what I  did or didn't understand, but  yeah, apparently because I said so.  Did you drive your mother to that point? Absolutely. Yeah. And I, wasn't until I became a mother that I realized that, you know, sometimes when your kids say, why can't I do this or why can't I have that? Sometimes the answer is so hard to explain. It's just easier to go because I said so.

15:08
Yeah. Even though I promised myself I'd never do that to my kids, I found myself a couple of times going, you know what, I can't have this conversation right now. Just I'm saying no. And it's because I said so.  Yeah. Did your mom have a magic handbag like Mary Poppins where there would just be, you'd never know what was in it, but Oh yeah. And you couldn't go in there. Like  you never go into mom's handbag. God, no. Is that a mother thing though? Or is that just, sorry, women, maybe some men as well? I mean, secret women's business, think secret mother's business.

15:35
Do you actually see, you don't see mums carry, like young mums carrying bags anymore, do you? Um, yeah, I think so. It's probably more likely to be a backpack if it's a young mum. True. All the stuff in there. Yeah, but there was, there's everything from tissues to boiled lollies to folding, shopping lists and all that sort of thing. So I don't know. And I know we recently had lunch with a dear, friend and her mum and it was

16:05
You talk about 15 different ways to do mints and it  wasn't mints, it was a beautiful meal, but Jess wants to keep feeding you. Why? There wasn't an obesity problem. uh Although, did you have to go out and play as like, regardless? Yeah. Yeah, we'd be out playing with the neighborhood kids all day. Yeah. But yeah, I can't remember my mum overfeeding us.

16:31
It was meat and three veg every night and you'd have lunch was at a set time and breakfast was at a set time. There wasn't sort of these, you know, it wasn't a buffet of food every night. Yeah. But we did have to finish everything on our plate. Oh yes, that's right. Did you, did you, oh, well you couldn't hide the peas under the mash in your house then? No, but, and you could flick them across the table at your sister, but that always ended badly. Like that would, she'd kick me underneath the table if I did.

17:00
Had a conversation with a friend a couple of weeks ago who  said that they used to actually put food in their pocket,  from the dinner. uh They didn't flick it across at their brother or sister or hide hide it from mum or dad. Yeah, yeah. It might've been. I don't know what it was. mean, I guess if it was, you know.  sprouts? Brussels sprouts. know, yeah. They used to just like when mum wasn't watching, I'm sure mum was because mum's got eyes in the back of her head. Yeah. Yes.

17:27
He'd stick it in his pocket and say, like, off you go, you know, I'll finish the mum. But yeah, and eyes in the back of your head. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I can remember one of my kids might have been my daughter when she was about five or six. She came up to the back of me one day, sitting on the lounge and she's lifted up my hair and I said, what are you doing? And she said, I'm looking for the eyes. Because you said you had eyes in the back of your head. And she was seriously looking for them, you know, and I was like, oh my goodness, this.

17:56
stuff does stay with your kids for a long time.  Oh no. the wooden spoon? you?  Yes.  The wooden spoon, wasn't that always? And  wait till your father gets home. They're two different types of discipline. Yes. Is that wait till your father, is that the next level or is that just deferring of,  know? It's deferring. I  always thought that we were led to believe it was the next level. You were in serious trouble if you had to go to your room and wait till your father got home.

18:24
But I think now I realize it was just mom going, I don't know what to do with this kid. I'm at my wits end. I need her to go away till the father gets home. And my dad would come in when he'd get home and he'd go, what did you do? Oh yeah, I hit my sister. And he'd like, okay, well, you know, go and say you're sorry and you can come out. And that was the end of it. Like dad's, I was led to believe this whole big drama was going to happen when dad got home, but it never did. Dad was always.

18:50
Very sweet and nice about  it. That's a big emotional thing though too, isn't it? It's not like you've got that fear for like 20 minutes, half hour, hour, and it gives mum time out.  That's exactly right. em Kids would be taking mothers to court these days for  PTSD or whatever it is. Oh, exactly. Because yeah, they're emotionally scarred from, you know, wait till your father gets home and  whether it was the wooden spoon. We used to occasionally get the feather duster.

19:18
Oh, did you get whacked with a feather duster? Wasn't the fluffy end either.  Oh,  I'm telling you now,  it wasn't the fluffy end because they used to be little cane, they used to be made out of cane ends.  I think it prepared me for probably any trouble I might've got into at school. Did your mum smack you or your dad or both?  I don't, I think dad smacked me  once.

19:40
I the same. have a vague recollection that maybe my mum smacked me on the back of the legs  once, but it certainly wasn't  like it didn't happen regularly. I can't even remember. Yeah. Yeah. I do remember that the threat of the  spoon would come out and the threat of the feather duster. I may have got the feather duster. It didn't scar me. The fact that I'm having to rack my brain and you probably have to too.  It's  like putting the smoking gun on the table in front of the, you know.

20:10
that  you'll confess to whatever Exactly, whatever it is.  And then also the, the, uh, veracity at which you yanked out the second drawer in the kitchen, right? I'm getting the wooden spoon. And cause of all the stuff that's in the second drawer and everyone's second drawer is the same, all your kitchen utensils are in there. You'd pull it out really hard and everything would rattle and the kids are just scattered. Yeah. Yeah. They'd be gone. You wouldn't have to actually even get it out of the drawer.  Oh, look.

20:37
Now you're bringing it  all to the surface.  there was, I remember I used to get in trouble a lot, not for anything serious, but one of the things that I used to get in trouble for was apart from breaking dad's golf clubs, because  occasionally I'd use them for something else other than playing golf, is we had a massive mulberry tree. And  I think a lot of houses had fruit trees and veggie gardens and  you know, and all that sort of thing.

21:04
Our mulberry tree was so big, I'd be able to hide under it and eat the mulberries and like it'd be all that. And I didn't know how to get it off my face, but you know, I'd get in trouble cause I wasn't allowed to because mum would actually go out of her way to make everything from mulberry jam to mulberry pies, do anything to get rid of these damn mulberries,  but give them to all the neighbors. And I don't know whether that's a mum thing, a neighbor thing. It's like bringing in the washing for your neighbors. And that's something that  you don't  see anymore, but I think that's.

21:34
That's not necessarily a mom thing, is it? I think everyone's mom and grandma could make jam and stuff, couldn't they? think that was something that was passed. And everyone's mom and grandma could  sew, which we don't do anymore. Like I  can manage to get a button on, sew a button on. ah But my mom made all of our clothes  when we were growing up because  money was an issue. So she would make clothes and she'd get out the singer sewing machine and

22:01
That was one of my great memories of childhood was talking to mum while she was making stuff on the machine. That's a nice memory to have. I had to explain that to my grandson only last week and said it, you know, mum or grandma would sit there behind the singer or the Benina or the brother sewing machine and you'd hear the little bobbins going and the put on the thing and a few first words when the cotton had break and off you go, whether it was a, uh,

22:30
you know, a blouse, a pair of shorts, whatever it was, they wouldn't, you wouldn't just pop on down to your local hypermarket. And don't see that anymore, do you? And mum would make, every time we had to wear something special to school, mum would make the costume. Whatever it was, she would fashion, none of this going down to Spotlight like we do these days and the costumes are already there ready to go. You just pay you 20 bucks and you've got a Superman outfit.

22:58
I would make all that stuff for us if we had to have an Easter bonnet for the Easter bonnet parade or a mom I've got to go dressed as a bumblebee and and mom would make a costume. Yeah, yeah. I was so talented, weren't they? Yeah, like those skills are not lost. But I mean, it's it's obviously cheaper these days to go and buy something rather than.

23:20
going down to your fabric shop and choosing the fabric, spending the time to actually make something, working out that you stitched three arms on there instead of  two. But they were adept at all those sort of things, whether it was knitting, whether it was crocheting, whether it was sewing, as well as being a mother and probably uh having  surrogate kids all the way up and down the street when you just brought them back to play without any announcement. um

23:46
So, and that was something I remember as well that, you know, you occasionally would go down the street and all of a sudden there'd be six or seven kids in your backyard. Yeah. And mum would come out, you know, and with the homemade ice blocks that she'd put in the freezer the night before or something. some cordial or something. If you're really lucky, you might get some cordial or some homemade, homemade bikki or something like that. Yeah. Weren't mums good? Oh, were great. and I remember, um, I remember she used to, my mum used to always say, make sure you've got clean underwear on, you know, cause if you were

24:15
because if you're involved in an accident and the ambulance needs to take you to hospital, it's imperative to have clean underwear. You were rich, you had underwear. Wow. big bloomers, yes. And I think everyone's mum was like, when you think about the logic behind that now, that I'm sure the ambulance officer is going to go, oh, hang on, we've got to fix this girl, she's been hit by, oh wait, she's got dirty undies.

24:42
just leave up. they don't match. Yeah, that's right. They don't match. Yeah,  worry about the next bloke. So yeah. So you're a granddad  and your lovely wife Cathy is a grandma. Tell us about Kath as a mom.  What jumps out to you about her as a mom? You know, I think most fathers, and I know I'm generalizing here, m but most fathers always have that guilt complex as well because

25:11
Mums, for the most part, even if they're working, they seem to make that effort to either getting kids to school or being home or,  and I think fathers always have that. And so that's the beauty of being a grandfather because  you get that second chance sometimes if you've got grandkids, because you can be on hand. But she was a great mom, you know, and she  always made sure that there was lots of love for, you know, all the girls. But

25:38
And the girls would always say, oh, there were way too many rules.  Um, but you know,  I don't think there were  that might've come from me a little bit too. Uh, I'm not as, say fair with  the rule bending as maybe my wife, but  look,  the girls having grown up, they just know that there's a certain age where  you sort of get instructed by your mom that this is the right thing and this is the wrong thing. And at a certain age.

26:07
you can make that choice. You know the difference  of being able to do that. But yeah, look, I think my kids had a great sort of time growing up. I don't know about  you and your sister and how that all sort of panned out, but you know. Yeah, had a lot of, my sister had a lot of mental health issues growing up. we, yeah, there was a, it was quite ah a struggle at times in my family, but mum always held it together. She was amazing that she was always

26:37
because dad had to go out and work and was at one stage doing working three jobs to support the family and mum was there um and she had to deal with a lot of the issues that we were facing. you know in the 70s and  80s but yeah it was was tough and when I think of myself as a mother I always was worried that I would be a crap mother and when I say that I mean I was worried my kids would turn out to be let's just say not great citizens.

27:06
And like  yes, I somehow I would  stuff up the kids but to my surprise the kids all turned Out.  Okay, despite the fact that I just stumbled through motherhood Hoping I was doing the right thing and making the right decisions not really knowing what I was doing because no mother does you know, you sort of Know it's been a mother before so how do I do this? How do I navigate this?  but I think it's really important for your kids to know that

27:34
as a mother you make mistakes and sometimes you're gonna make the wrong decisions but you're making them from a place of their best interests at heart. So I've always been with my kids very big on apologizing if I get it wrong. And if it turns out I did make a wrong decision, I go, hey guys, sorry about that. Or if I was cranky or hey, sorry, I've had a bad day, mom's a bit angry and I would apologize to them and hopefully by showing them that respect, it would teach them

28:03
that as well. Yeah, so. Look,  I know your kids, I've met your kids and you're a great mum. um you know, and but none of us,  no mums, no dads, there's no book. I mean, I know when  if you if you choose to be or lucky enough to be a parent, there is no book, there is no answers in the books, but they don't always relate to you and your situation. That's right. But there's no right and wrong answers.  Yeah, everyone's an individual.

28:33
Um,  and you know, that's, that's just how life is. And we all make mistakes.  We all try to do the best for our kids. I know  you're a wonderful mom. You've got wonderful kids.  I've occasionally been called a mother, but I don't think that's been taken in the right way. But having said that I can hear mom now saying,  Kayleigh streetlights are about to come on. It's, time to go home. So I think, I think it's Oh,  is it time?

29:00
Do we have to get out of here? Oh, it's going to crap on about how great I am, but as a mother,  but... No, no, leave that to me next time. Right you are. Okay, to later.  See, bye bye. all the mums.  The views and opinions expressed on the Big Six O are personal  and reflect those of the hosts and guests. They do not represent the views or positions of any affiliated organisations  or companies.  This podcast is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be construed as professional advice.

29:29
Please consult with a qualified professional for guidance on any personal matters.

29:36
And before we go,  let's give credit where credit is due.  Kaylee Harris and I came up with all the genius content for this week's episode.  Our producer,  Nick Abood,  well he keeps the lights on and makes sure we don't accidentally upload a cat video instead of a podcast. thanks for keeping us on track, Nick.  Nick?  Nick?